Calling Down
the Craft: Adventures with the Mind
A video interview with Bill Hamilton
Laughlin, Nevada, March 2006
Shot, edited and directed by Kerry Lynn Cassidy
Bill Hamilton: Have I seen a UFO? Many UFOs.
Kerry Cassidy: Many UFOs.
And could you tell us who you are?
B: Well, my
name is Bill Hamilton. I’ve been involved in UFO research probably most of my
life. I got involved in the actual investigation of cases starting in 1976 with
the Brian Scott case. And that’s when I joined MUFON and became a Field
Investigator.
K: So how long
were you a Field Investigator for MUFON?
B: Probably
since 19... well, let me see... 25 years off and on...
K: How did you
interact with aliens?
B: ...it was
1957.
K: Wow.
B: And what I
knew about about UFOs I had learned from what I call the California Contactees
back at that time. And there wasn’t a lot of controversy about the contactees,
about UFOs or whatever. In fact, I had started to meet the contactees. And I
was only 14 and I had a buddy in high school... we were freshmen in high
school... and I said, “I would like to try an experiment. I would like to try
an experiment along the same lines that George Hunt Williamson did in
attempting contact with these UFOs.”
Right? “Now, I believe they’re there but I
want to see if I can contact them.” We tried this experiment, and obviously we
did not have the ham radio equipment. We didn’t have anything that we could use
except an attempt at psychic contact by using pencil and paper. And when we
initiated this little experiment we started to hear a sound that was
reverberating throughout the room. And so we got up and we looked all around
the apartment. He and I were.... He was a French-Canadian named Yves
[Lauriault].
He and I were together alone in his parents’ apartment. And we
couldn’t locate the source of the sound, so we decided to go outdoors. When we
went outdoors it seemed like the sound was emanating from the sky above us. So
we discontinued our little experiment, went downstairs and sat on the grass.
And as soon as we did this, the first thing that we saw was a very... well, it
looked to us like it was tiny... a tiny red glowing disc just glides right over
our heads. Soundlessly. One came by. A second one came by. At that moment in
time, unknown to me, Yves continued the experiment. He was sending out these
mental requests for the second object that passed over to turn around and come
back. And what happened is, as soon as he did that, the object executed a turn,
a very, very tight 180 and came right back over our heads.
K: Wow.
B: And so he
told me what he was doing and he said, “If we see more, let’s do it together.”
And we saw two more appear. And they were all traveling from north to south,
and so we sent out a request for them to turn around and follow each other,
right? And they did. I mean, it was almost instantly.
Well, all
together that night we saw fourteen objects. After that, Yves’ father had to
move and took Yves out of school and I didn’t see him again. In fact, I haven’t
seen him until about, oh, three years ago. He found me on the internet. And I
found out he was right over in Bakersfield, and he drove over to see me. When we
talked I also found out that was the only UFO experience he ever had and he
still remembered every detail. He was impressed by it.
So that was
unknown to me at the time, and I continued the experiment for three years, only
from my house. Right? And so I took my... I was living with my aunt and my
grandmother and I took her outside and said, “I’ve got one up there now.” And
she said, “I’m watching television.” And I said, “Well, you told me to tell you
when I saw one, that you’d like to see it.” So I took her out there and
[pointing upward] I said, “There it is.” And she said, “That’s it?” And I said,
“Yeah. Right now it just looks like a light, bright in the sky,” I said, “but
watch this [gesturing upward left, then right] Turn left. Turn right.” She turns
white as a sheet and she said, “Oh my God, you’re talking to it.” And I said,
“Yeah, that’s what I’ve been telling you all along.” And then it occurred to me
that she was just humoring me until she saw it for herself.
K: Wow.
B: And these
experiments continued, so that... I had a very large object in 1958. Hovered.
It was coming in faster than a jet and stopped on a dime. I had a friend from
across the street over. I had my first telescope. This thing was as big as a
747 and it just hung in the air. That is what stimulated me to think, “How did
it do that? I’m going to study the science of gravity. I’m going to find out
how it defies gravity. And inertia.”... Right? Two basic qualities of a
physical object that’s in motion, right? Because when this thing... It flipped
end-over-end and it started up again... I mean it was just like it had no mass.
It just went “whoosh” and started to climb and at that moment, I mean, my
friend was looking through the telescope. It took that long for him to respond,
look up and see it rise into the clouds.
And then I
used to... then I started calling them down, like using them for a “Yes/No”
game. Right? It didn’t even occur to me that there were logistics to this or
anything. Right? Just... “Oh, I just met this new person says their a
contactee. If this is true, do you know about it? Can you show me?” Right? And
sometimes they’d come over, dashing right over my head about 100 yards up. I
mean, now they get lower, right?
Ah, then there
was another time when it seemed like I was bathed in some kind of electrical
shower. Right? And then I could... I started getting telepathic answers. Very
short. Right? But one of them just struck me, I think it was around 1959. It
was golden. It was a golden disc. Just beautiful. Just hanging there and it
said, “Wake up your mind. You’re in a deep sleep.” Yeah, and that stayed with
me.
Another time
we were out in the desert experimenting with a lightbeam transceiver to
communicate with them. And there was about 14 people. The guy you saw downstairs,
Bob Short, was out there and he can remember the incident because we were using
the lightbeam transmitter for line-of-sight transmission into the sky, saying,
“If you receive our signal, could you please respond?” Of course, we were
hoping for a signal back. They never responded through the lightbeam
transceiver, although some people have been successful with them. Instead, for
some reason, and there were others who were contactees out there that day, I
was the one that heard, you know, just like they did over my driveway, they
repeated this message. And they said, “Look for our bright blue flare in the
west.” Three times. And I said, “I better tell my buddy John here because if it
happens he’s not going to believe me if I tell him after the fact.” So I told
him. After I told him exactly what the words were, Bob Short, who’s downstairs,
said... Somebody had asked him, “Well, what direction is west?” And it
was just like synchronized to some kind of... you know, it’s just like theatre
with these people. Right?
K: [laughs]
B: He points
just like this... and just as he did, a blue bolide came right down. It looked
like barbells, right? Very unusual. Beautiful. And John wrote about it
eventually in his book but he decided to leave my name out.
K: This was
John....?
B: This was
John McCoy from Texas.
K: So,
where... Are you from.... did this happen mainly in Texas?
B: This
happened in the high desert of California.
K: Ah.
B: I’m not
from Texas... although I’ve spent time in the Air Force there.
My contactee
type of experiences... I mean, a saucer never landed and invited me aboard. I
do believe that I had encounters with people here on Earth that were not from
Earth. Very brief encounters. Back then, and even later on, okay, they always
seemed to happen at about the time that I launched an investigation into
something. I wanted to know the answers.
I went to
college, left that contactee era behind me. Dropped out of college due to
economic necessity, joined the Air Force, went into Air Force Security Service.
Had one sighting while I was in the Air Force. Got discharged. Went into the
aerospace industry. I wanted to be an aerospace engineer. That didn’t happen
because the aerospace industry collapsed. I got into computers. I started... I
went to night school, learned programming, became a programmer. Been one ever
since.
K: You work at
UCLA? Is that right?
B: I work at
UCLA as a programmer/analyst, senior programmer/analyst. Just about to retire.
I always loved science and engineering, so kind of regretted not going along
that line.
“People on
Earth who are not from Earth”
K: So you say
you’ve had interactions with beings that... I’m assuming they look human?
B: These
people can move among us. They could be downstairs and mingle and you wouldn’t
know it.
K: Uh huh.
B: Now, it
isn’t because they don’t have a few distinguishing features, they’re kind of
like “heightened” features. They’re... in appearance, they’re perfect. They
would be our conception of perfect men and women. I mean, they have absolute
symmetry of features. They have flawless skin. They have perfect eyesight,
perfect teeth, perfect form. Everything seems perfect, as if they have mastered
the genetic master plan. One difference is, you might notice if you looked at
them, is their eyes. Some of them have a little different eye coloring than you
would see in a human, or they’ll have these little sparkling silver or golden
flakes in their eyes.
K: Hmm.
B: These types
also were extremely strong. A five-foot-three woman could lift a six-foot-four
man right off the ground with the strength of ten men. They could bend their
fingers back. They say we are related to them. We’re... we are the hybrids, not
them; they are the pure form of man, right? Hu-Man, right?
That was the
story we got back in those days. Lots of contacts in the 1960s. I actually saw
two of them driving a car on a highway and they wanted to make contact with me.
They let me know. And it’s because there was another person I knew in Hollywood
who had contact with them who told me about that incident that happened on the
highway, that I’m fairly convinced, because she wasn’t there, and so how did
she know? Right?
I got
interested in some of the, ah... I started hearing about abductions, right? You
know, Betty Hill abduction and everything. And at first I rejected them. That
wasn’t... did not conform to the pattern that I already knew. And believe me,
back in the ‘50s there were a lot of people that had contact experiences that
never got up on a lecture stand, never wrote a book, were never interviewed on
it, but I spoke to them.
K: Uh huh.
B: And in one
particular case, some of these people showed up out at Giant Rock, four of
them, with 36 witnesses, out there. By the time I started going out there, I
could only find two or three witnesses out of those 36.
[missing
dialog for five seconds]
And the person
I really felt strong about was George Van Tassel. I became good friends with
George Van Tassel. I had so many conversations with that man, hours of them.
You know, I just admired him. He had this tremendous breadth of knowledge and
he didn’t have any real higher formal education. The other person I knew very
well was Daniel Fry, because I was vice president of this group. And he was a
brilliant guy, and he didn’t have any formal education.
K: Hm. So,
you’ve been sort of one of the main researchers involved with Dan Burisch,
right?
B: Yes, well,
that’s coming way up in time because it was, when I started to investigate
Brian Scott in the 1970s, who was an abductee/ contactee. He was both, right?
Ah, I spent four years on that case. That’s how fascinating. And then it was
during that period of time I spent four years that I had two of these guys walk
into my house.
K: Two of what
guys?
B: Whoever
they were!
K & B:
[laughs]
B: But they
came into my house. Well, I ran a rooming house with my wife in Los Angeles at
the time. She’s now deceased. But … they came through that door. My friend John
was in the kitchen. He never heard the door open. They just walked down the
hallway. And they were dressed in suits and they said, “We’re from the Health
Department. We’ve received a complaint. We need to inspect the house.” This
guy... one goes upstairs. It was a three-room rooming house, I mean three-story
rooming house. The other one went into what I would call my library room. I had
all these books and I had a section all on UFOs. He goes into this room and I thought,
“Well, he’s going to look at the floor, right? For cockroaches, or mice, or
something, right? What’s he doing?” No. He’s looking at my UFO books! So I
stood in the doorway so that he couldn’t get out of the room unless he came by
me. So he came right up to me, I looked right into his eyes.... and my brain
jammed because I thought I was looking right into infinity, into... a highly
evolved being. I mean, I can’t even begin to tell you the feeling that I had at
that moment. And I’m thinking, “Who are you? Why don’t you say something to
me?” Right? That’s what I’m thinking when his partner comes down the stairs and
says, “We have to go now.”
So they exit
the back door and I follow them out and this guy that was in my library, he
turns around at the end of the steps and says, “Do you have a cigarette?” And I
said, “Yeah.” At that time I smoked, so I gave him a Benson & Hedges. And
then he goes... he looks at me... he says, “Do you have a light for this
cigarette?” And I had one of the new Bic lighters and I handed it to him. And
he took it, but he had it upside-down. And he’s looking at this thing and he
reaches for me like this [demonstrates holding lighter out], and said,
“Would-you-please-operate-this-mechanism-for-me?” Now, who talks like that,
right?
And I said, “Oh, OK,” like he was a child. I showed him how it worked
and lit his cigarette. And it was like he wanted to know what it as like,
right? He took a draw, threw it away. “We have to go now.” So I yelled to my
friend John. I said, “John, get out here on the double.” So he comes out. These
guys headed for an alleyway, right? And I am only one house over from an
intersection of two streets. I say, “John, you take that street, I’ll take this
street. I want to know what car they get into.”
And I mean we ran to the street
just as they disappeared out of sight. When I got back to... I said, “Well,
John, I didn’t see anything, did you?” He said, “No.” I said, “You didn’t see a
car pull away?” “No.” “Well, did you see the men walking?” “No.” They vanished!
Right away I went to my wife and I said, “Call the Health Department now. I
want to know who they sent down and why.” She called. They’d never sent anybody
down.
K: [laughs]
B: And what
happened? A few days later, one of these... two more guys show up at Denny’s
Restaurant. And I won’t go through that whole scenario except one guy said...
as we were listening to what they were talking about because he was mentioning
Brian Scott. And I’m going, “How do two strangers know about Brian?”... he said
to his partner, “The humans are upset.” And when I looked into his blue eyes,
the same feeling...
K: Mmm...
B: Right? And
I’m going, “Who are these people?” And they can walk right among us. It’s...
well... my story is really not significant. There’s no way I could prove these
people were something extremely unusual. Other people have reported these type
of encounters. Even Timothy Good has reported that type of encounter.
Collecting
Testimony
K: Did you
write a book about Brian Scott?
B: Yeah. Well,
I wrote... When I finally got published it was only one chapter in Alien
Magic. I think it was chapter two. It was all about Brian.
K: Because I
was, you know... you said... you went to Brian when we talked about Dan
Burisch, and I’m curious about that.
B: Ah, yeah,
because Brian was the first time I had heard about the years 2011 and 2012.
When I met Dan Burisch later on, I’m hearing about 2012. (I’m just trying to
rapidly scan through this.) I went from being interested in that... During that
period of time I was interested in the Brian Scott case I had people coming to
me that were former military people. This is how I got involved in that part.
That turned into the ‘80s and I had investigated, oh, about a dozen abduction
cases by then as a MUFON investigator. And/or sites, right? Whatever there was
in my area. And then, you know, I even gave Field Investigator training classes
after a while, you know, and I started really getting into it because I was
good at [laughs] scientific investigation at least. I had no training as far
as, you know, detective, police type investi... or forensics, right? but that
fits in there too.
K: Uh huh.
B: But, see, I
transited over into suddenly people telling me about crash retrievals. And I
got interested in that. Crash retrievals during the mid ‘80s moved into
underground bases and Area 51. I first heard about Area 51 in 1984 and about
Lt. Robert Vaughn and how he died when his plane crashed. Lt.-Commander... I
mean Lt.-General Robert Vaughn who was Vice Commander of the Air Force Systems
Command. I’m going, “It’s awfully unusual for him to be test flying some
aircraft, right? Why would a Vice Commander go out there and risk his life?”
They use lieutenants, captains, and majors for doing test flights. I was in the
Air Force then, by the way. I was in Air Force Security Service. I had a Top
Secret Crypto clearance. So I was also familiar with...
K: So let’s
hear a little about that. Did you... at the time you were in the Air Force you
were not privy to, I’m assuming, the UFO ...
B: No. No, no, no.
K: OK. But you always had this history behind you. Do you
think that, or was, the Air Force aware of that history?
B: Yes. Well,
I needed to have a Top Secret clearance. The FBI took six months to give me
that clearance. They talked to some of my friends who knew me out at Giant
Rock... spacecraft conventions! I thought, “That’s it. They’ll never give me a
clearance.”
K: [laughs]
B: Right? No.
No. They all... these friends gave me a glowing report, so they took me. I got
my clearance.
K: Wow. So OK.
So as far as Dan Burisch is concerned....
B: Yeah, he
came along much later. I mean, I went through about... I had collected
testimony by that time that Steven Greer...you know who he is...
K: Yeah.
B: ... got
involved in his project of witnesses. He got his first witnesses from me. At
that time I had no project in mind, like he did, you know, going to Congress?
All I was doing was trying to collect the testimony. I was trying to keep
confidential some of these peoples’ names because they requested it and I knew
they would just shut me off if I started yapping all over the place. But I was
trying to find out what was going on. I had teamed up with Bill Steinman at the
time. Bill Steinman lead me to John Lear. John Lear led me to investigate
Dulce, New Mexico. I went over there, drove all around that place with Gabe
Valdez back in the ‘80s. I got hooked up with my friend Tal who was an
insider/outsider, you know, one foot in, one foot out... kept giving me tips
and information and what have you, to track down.
So I got very
involved. I met a guy in the ‘90s that was in reverse engineering, that had
flown one of our reverse engineered craft to the moon and back. I mean, it was
getting deeper and deeper, right?
Bob Lazar
K: Did you
ever meet Bob Lazar?
B: Yep. I knew
about Bob Lazar before anybody else did, through John Lear.
K: Oh, of
course. Of course.
B: John Lear
called me up one day: “Hey, I’ve got a story to tell you, Bill.” “What?” “We’ve
gotta go for a ride.” (He was a little paranoid.) “Let’s get in my truck.” And
he told me all about Bob Lazar except his name, at the time, because, you know,
I guess... But he told me things about Bob, that Bob had told him, that Bob
never mentioned. And, what... you know, John believes is that they tinkered
with his memory, right? Because he had heard all this stuff about the moon from
Bob Lazar and stuff like that. Bob is, “No way, no way.” But one day...
K: OK. Wait
... that’s a little unclear. You’re saying they tinkered with Bob Lazar’s
memory?
B: Yes, with
his memory.
K: Not John
Lear’s.
B: No, not
John Lear’s. In others words, Bob had... according to John, Bob had related all
of this information to John which later Bob denied that he had...
K: Yes, in a
certain sense there was a disconnect. He kind of, like, forgot ....
B: Right.
There was a disconnect.
K: ... that he
ever knew that.
B: Right.
K: OK. So
there’s... yes... there’s some question as far as that goes. So, OK, so on the
trail to Dan Burisch ...
Bill Uhouse /
J-Rod
B: Then I met
Bill Uhouse.
K: OK.
B: That’s an
important event. Bill Uhouse was a mechanical engineer who, speaking out at
Rachel and people that “you ought to meet Uhouse,” ‘cause by that time I had
been speaking about some of these disclosure people we’re talking about. So I
met Bill Uhouse and I thought it was hilarious. Here he had been working on a
flight simulator for flying discs so our pilots could learn how to fly them and
one of the “chief consultants” on this top secret project was an alien that he
called J-Rod! Right?
And that’s where I first heard about J-Rod. In 1999 I’m on
the internet and I find there is a website I stumbled across when I, you know,
typed in a search or something and here was this document, and I said, “Boy,
this document’s awfully technical. I’ve never seen a document that was
technical like this.” We call it the Q94 document. And I’m reading through it,
and I stopped when I got there and I saw: “Extraterrestrial Biological Entity:
AQ-J-Rod.” J-Rod. You know … whoa! Wait a minute! And it was signed Captain
Danny B. Crain, Ph.D.
Dan Burisch /
MJ-12 / Getting the truth out
So I got ahold
of the person and I ordered a copy of this, flashed it around MUFON and said,
“Hey, is anybody interested in this?” I couldn’t rouse any interest. [laughs]
And I’m, like, “OK.” And I couldn’t get any more information until 2002 when
this person, Marci, contacted me and she said, “You know, Bill, I need help. I
need help. Dan’s in trouble...” dadada. And at that point I had not met Dan, I
had not met Marci, and she just called me at work at UCLA and I said, “We have
to sit down and talk.”
And I think it
was on a Friday. It was before... I was going to leave, go up to Vegas on that
Saturday, and she called me in the afternoon just before I left and said,
“Bill, how would you like to meet Dan?” And I said, “Are you kidding? Can you
arrange that?” And she said, “Yes I can.” So when I went there I not only met
Marci for the first time, I met Dan. And when he first saw me... and I was
wearing an Air Force cap... he took all these papers and his briefcase and he
stuffed all the papers in the briefcase and he ran out of that room, ‘cause he
didn’t know who I was. And I said, “Oh, no,” you know. And Marci said, “I’ll
handle it,” and went over to the elevator.
Called me back in about five minutes
later, and introduced me to Dan. And he was, like, shaking. I mean, I’m
serious. And he said, “You know I have to...." he said, "I’m very
sorry I reacted like that. I have to watch myself. I’ve only got, you know, two
hours of liberty.” Right? And Marci says, “I’ve got a private room,” you know,
the library where we were. And so we went in there. I had one hour with him. He
was very nervous. He had a cold or something that first time, but some of the
answers he gave me that first time knocked my socks off. I said this guy has
met an alien, because there were certain things that he knew that were so
typical that I had picked up along the way from Brian, from everyone, right?
K: And you
certainly had a background at that point to be able to evaluate somebody like
that...
B: Oh yeah, after
25 years...
K: Who was
Marci? Who is Marci, would you say? She’s an agent?
B: No, she was
just... she was working for the State of Nevada, OK? She had a job in human
resources because she’s got a masters degree in, ah... what do they call it...
organizational psychology, which they hire the psych people in human resources.
She was working with computers. She’s very good at that. She’s worked in
casinos. She did casino surveillance, you know, with those cameras?
K: Uh huh.
B: She even
wrote a book about... yeah.
K: How did she
get involved with Dan, then?
B: She met
him... well, that’s a good question, because the first story that came to me is
Dan’s mother was working at that same casino. Dan was working at that casino.
Security. And she had observed him on camera a couple times doing some unusual
things, like going into this office, punching in a code, hanging up the
telephone, the telephone ringing and she could hear him saying, “Yes sir. Yes
sir. Yes sir.” Things like this. So Dan approached her because she had some
writing experience and said, “I want to get out a story.
It’s about research
I’ve done on the planet Mars as a biome.” And she said, “Ah, really?” So she
got involved, and as things progressed she found out... or she was warn... She
got warnings: “Watch out, this man is involved with Area 51.” “Area 51? Not
that story.” And she said, “That’s just a popular legend here in Las Vegas.”
And oh, no, this was for real and so people were starting to give her
documents. In fact I got a copy of one of them which I published in my book,
which is a security oath that he signed up at the Tonopah test site back in the
‘80s. So... now, ostensibly they wrote the book. There were a couple of other
men involved in that, and Dan, and her. It was called Eagles Disobey.
K: You can’t
get that book now, isn’t that right?
B: There are
copies of it but... she had assigned the rights to somebody and that somebody
did not assign the rights back to her when she requested it. The thing is, the
only thing is, one day I get an e-mail from Marci, now 2002, 3, 4... time
passes on. At one point there she thinks Dan has been captured or died or hurt
or something. She doesn’t know. She’s scared. Some of her contacts that she had
told her, “You’d be safer to get out of town.” So... she came from Canada... so
she went back to Canada. She contacted me when she was in Canada. And she
started saying, “I’m being followed. People are following me everywhere and I’m
worried, and something’s going on.” And then I get... well, see, I got mysterious
letters also in the mail, when it all started.
K: From....? I
mean, are they... well, let’s say, they are from the community, so to speak?
B: From the
black community. The black ops community.
K: Threatening
letters?
B: No, not so
much threatening as just saying... just giving me some information. Or just
saying, “Here’s the status of things.” Ah, “It’s kind of dangerous.” Right? “We
are friends of Dan’s but, you know, certain things are going on.” Well, this
one... this guy sent me not only a letter, he sent me a photocopy, color
photocopy, of Marci from various angles in her apartment, her bathroom, her...
[laughs]. In other words, there was planted cameras all over the place. And
then finally sent me a picture of her with a Majestic badge... MAJ. OK? It
usually has a letter and four numbers, just like Bob Lazar’s, only instead of
'H', like, Dan had an 'E'. Right?
K:
Symbolizing...?
B: Her website
was taken down. Her e-mail was deleted. I had no contact with her. It was just,
like, I got that letter and then that was it.
K: Have you
heard from her... you’ve heard from her since then?
B: Well, then
I got word that she was back in Vegas...
K: OK....
B: ... not
only back in Vegas, but working with Dan as his operations director!
K: OK. So what
did the 'E' symbolize on that badge? Do you know?
B: I haven’t
found out to date. I don’t know what the 'H' or 'E' means, and I’ve asked.
Maybe they’ll tell me one of these days. I don’t know. But it designates a
classification of job assignment, I guess.
K: OK... so...
B: I’m
assuming the 'H' has to do with science.
K: What year
was it that she sort of disappeared?
B: Ah, late
2003. Reappeared 2004, now as a member of Majestic.
K: She .. I
mean, you’re sitting there saying she’s a member of Majestic.
B: Oh
absolutely. Yeah. But...
K: Weren’t
you...
B: I found
out....
K: I heard....
B: ... another
story.
K: Oh.
B: OK. That’s
the top story, right?
K: Sure.
B: And there’s
a story under that, and the story under that is she met Dan in 1980 in the UK.
Not only that, there were... See, there’s all kinds... this is what’s so
mysterious. Somebody starts sending us background material. Everything I could
check out absolutely checked out. I’ve had conversations recorded, e-mail
intercepted. I was walking with my friend Winston outdoors. We were talking.
That conversation was picked up by a spy device. Outdoors.
K: Right.
B: And
regurgitated back to me in an e-mail.
K: Ah.
B: There were
some errors, which was interesting. I have met Dan and had photographs, taken
from unknown people standing somewhere behind me in a casino, sent to me by
e-mail, to the point where I started saying, “Hey. Boy, this is either an
elaborate hoax involving many people or it’s the real thing.” Right? “This is a
covert operation of some kind.” Because they have sophisticated enough
technology that they could tap into our conversations indoors or outdoors. They
can intercept my e-mail. They intercepted an e-mail from my friend Alan to me.
That was just from him to me. It had some confidential information that they...
and they wished to let us know that they knew.
K: Right.
B: So that was
the kind of thing that became more and more convincing all along.
K: OK. Now.
I’ve heard that you were invited to join Majestic. Is that a rumor, or is that
true?
B: Ah, let me
say this. I knocked on the door. I started thinking. “Dan, you know they sent
you to school. I never completed my education in physics or engineering...
Maybe they’ll send me.” You know? And I said, “Could you get me in?” You know?
“You think they’ll take me up to S-4 or... anything?” I said, “Lazar talked his
way into it, maybe I can talk my way into it.” I said, “I have the opportunity
here.”
K: Uh huh.
B: And so at
some point, I think it was in 2004, in March 2004, Dan requested that I research
something in physics, or... actually pertaining to biophysics. It was something
he was looking into. And he said, “You know... send me a paper on it.” So I
did... two... on biophotonics. He said, “This is great.” And... and that’s
something. He folded my papers up with all of his and went off to Washington,
DC, and delivered them. And I went... “Did I just contribute something to your
project?” [laughs]
And he said, “Yep. It’s a matter of record now.” Right? And
he said, “Don’t worry. It’s good stuff.” And I’m going, “Well, great.” And I
said, “Wait a minute. If I’m going to do that, I want... I want the door to
open.” Well, then I get contacted by his security: “OK. You were in the Air
Force. You took an oath.” And dadadada.... right? “For now we want you to reply
to this e-mail that you will abide by the oath you took then.” You know, Top
Secret oath, right?
K: OK.
B: So I’m
going, “How can he do that?” Right? Then I’m sent a message from Majestic-1 to
William Hamilton saying, “You have asked certain questions about Dan and we
have agreed (because they always have to agree) to provide you an answer.” And
he starts going through a timeline, right? Starting at Eisenhower’s meeting
with the aliens, right? 1958 first treaty signed near Los Alamos. And coincidentally
my friend Robert sends me a photograph of a Majestic team, 1958, right outside
of Los Alamos. So I’m going, “Whoa, what’s going on here?” This is getting
stronger and stronger, right? I have published that full message...
K: Yes, and
why do you think they are doing this?
B: I am being
told that Dan was... you know, first they selected Bob Lazar and they said, “We
wanted to see what he would do.” But he became a maverick, right? A little
uncontrollable. They had better control of Dan. They felt Dan was very bright
because he almost has... well, he had an eidetic memory. OK. And they just
decided, for reasons that weren’t immediately apparent to me at that time, a
little bit more apparent to me now... because it turns out that Dan was
abducted when he was a child, that he should tell the world, but he should tell
the world in a positive voice... right?... what is going on. And Majestic has,
according to what I’ve found out... again, I’m only reporting this. I have no
way of verifying some of these things. But now I do know who all the current
numbers are. Right? They have met for the last time last year [2005] in
assembly and have agreed not to meet, convene, again for two years. And when
they convened they voted on giving Dan an order to tell the world. And he has
until the end of this year [2006] to accomplish that mission because they
expect more and more radical changes which will become apparent to the public
as we proceed to 2007, 2008, toward this omega point of 2012 …
K: So...
B: … which
they expect us to survive.
K: So
basically in a certain sense, you know, if I’m following you, you were denied
access to joining MJ-12?
B: Yeah, it
was like I came along a little too late to really contribute anything. I mean,
they agreed that I could start working with Dan if I wanted to, if I took a
project. He still wants me to work on some of the science with him. It’s just
that I have been recruited to work on another project, for which I have to sign
a non-disclosure agreement, by another person who has kind of.... taken and
proven that we have been reverse engineering craft and wants me to be involved
in that. So, because I want to know what’s going on everywhere, what do I do? I
volunteer for these things. So I have had a foot... it feels like I’ve had a foot
almost in the door but not to the point of where I wanted to be ... where I
said, “Hey, show me the money. Show me... not the money .... show me the proof
that you’ve got.”
K: So...
OK.... but Dan...
B: I’m in a
very...
K: Dan is
alive, is alive and doing well at the moment. Is that correct?
B: Yes, I only
saw him a few weeks ago.
K: OK. And you
still visit him, is it in Vegas?
B: I’ll see
him tomorrow.
K: In... Here?
B: In Vegas.
That’s all I can tell you about that.
K: No, I
understand. You know....
B: Dan is
sane.
K: OK, that’s
what I want to hear, is what your take is.
B: Rational.
K: OK.
B: OK? Deals
with facts, as a scientist.
K: Now, I saw
a portion of this interview you did with him but my understanding is that the
video interview is much longer. Are you releasing that?
B: I’m not
releasing anything any more, because I don’t have the rights.
K: Meaning...
B: As far
as...
K: Majestic-12
has the rights? Dan has the rights?
B: No. Ron
Garner. He’s here. If you want to interview him, he’s here at this conference.
K: Ron Garner.
B: Yep.
K: Was he
involved in the shooting of it?
B: He went in
there with money.
K: Did he
shoot it? I mean, I’m just trying to figure out how he has rights.
B: No. Well,
he says that he has all the right connections to get Dan’s story out, to
television, you know, all over, and apparently he has offered Dan and Marci
enough evidence that he has these connections. But I don’t like it. I told Dan
I will not work with Ron Garner. OK? You know, I published a book on Dan. I
said, “That’s the end of the story.” I told the story.
I said right in the
introduction: “I cannot prove this story to the public.” But I know that I have
seen enough and experienced enough. Because I have been closer, I believe, than
any investigator to Dan, and there are things that, to me, speak the truth. OK?
I mean, I’ve seen Dan use disinformation because he was ordered to. He doesn’t
like to but he was ordered to for security reasons and I know how they use him.
Now the Intel guys that specialize in disinformation?
Sometimes they do it just
for fun, get a kick out of spinning us around. And that’s what I believe they’ve
done with Project Serpo, because it’s just so full of... errors. I’ll put it
that way, mildly.
Project Serpo
K: Well, OK.
Well, that’s interesting that you happen to think... And you know, I’m going to
end this pretty soon here and you’ve been very gracious and, and this is great.
But I was just wondering, in terms of Project Serpo... I know you’ve pointed
out some very, you know, accurate errors, that have been, you know, recognized,
at least by Bill Ryan, and acknowledged. But do you think there’s any truth to
the story?
B: I think we
have an exchange program. See, I’ve been hearing this story on and off for a
number of years and... I was supposed to meet a colonel from Edwards Air Force
Base... I used to hold meetings out in the Antelope Valley and one of my people
that came to the meetings met this colonel who looked at my book, even read
through it, and said, “Hey this here’s about 80 to 90 percent accurate.”
Then
he started telling her, “How would you like to see some real documents on
this?” And she goes, “I don’t think so, not if they’re classified.” And he
said, “I want to show you all the different levels of identification I’ve got.”
Right? And then he started telling a story. He says, “I’m going to tell you
this story because, you know, nobody’s going to believe this anyway.” And he
said that he has been on another planet where he could see two suns in the sky.
And also he said, “I had a brigadier general that was a good friend of mine.”
He says, “I was flying a jet out of Edwards and I crash landed. And there were
a lot of injuries. I didn’t think I would survive that. And they took me to the
underground hospital at Edwards... underground facility hospital ... and they
used some of the alien technology to put me back together.”
K: Hm.
B: So, you
know... stories like this guy saying that he had actually been to another
world, ah, was fascinating. And I had heard stories like that. Nothing you
could prove, right?
K: Sure.
B: But it
seems like somebody gathered these together... changed the whole character of
the Ebens, right? And put together this story somewhat like the Steven
Spielberg Close Encounters where they had twelve people, I think two of them
women, ten men, that were supposed to go aboard this craft. And I mean they
just weaved it all together, but they didn’t pay very much attention to
science.
K: Hmm.
B: So what
they described is a planet around Zeta Reticuli with two stars that are only
about as distant from the planet as our own sun is. OK? That’s impossible. A
planet cannot... you know, which sun does the planet orbit? And there is no
such close, 180 million mile distance between two stars in Zeta Reticuli. The
two stars, Zeta Reticuli 1 and Zeta Reticuli 2 are over a light year apart,
about 9,000 astronomical units, compared to ONE astronomical unit. OK?
So
that’s one big error. And then they make the planet almost the exact same
diameter as the Earth and give it a different gravitational constant, right?
Then they say, ah, they didn’t have any means of tracking the time on the planet...
on the planet Serpo? But they did have this tower, which was something like a
sundial, right? And they knew what time it was. And I said, “You can’t have
advanced technology,” (you know, I protested) “... without extremely precise
clocks and timing mechanisms.
You can’t even have a computer without that, much
less a space craft that travels light years.” “Oh, who’s the idiot who asked
this question?” Right? I am. I mean, I know technology, right?
New Interests
/ Is “reality” real?
K: So are you
basically interested in writing any more books?
B: I have
branched out a little further away from just... because I got interested in
certain subjects, as a consequence of some of this research, that fascinate me
about the universe, about reality... well... is reality real? [laughs] Plus I
have spent 22 days in an altered state of consciousness back in 1977.
K: Twenty-two
days?
B: Twenty-two
days.
K: Meaning...
what are you talking about, the Monroe Institute, or...?
B: [shakes
head no] This happened to me spontaneously while I was trying to concentrate my
mind on the resolution of a particular problem. My mind accelerated. I could do
high speed mathematics. I could read Greek. I could read Latin. I could read
peoples’ minds. I could move objects, you know, this kind of thing. I had
people all around me, all my friends who used to gather with me at the coffee
shop, plying me with questions about everything.
And here I am with answers
coming out of me like I was a cosmic computer, OK? So, it was a life changing
experience. It happened twice in my life. And actually, there was a third
incident in the 1980s. But now I’m very, very interested... like I wrote this
book on time travel. I’m interested in anomalies in time, multidimensional
universe and things like this.
Of course,
Bill Ryan and I, we share, ah, a philosophy on this where we believe that this
is... we are spiritual beings that are immersed and trapped in our own
creation...
K & B:
[chuckle]
B: ... and
that this creation has now become greater than us, where in truth we are
greater than it. And that’s what was revealed to me in ‘77. And unfortunately
something happened where I woke up, completely, on the job. I was programming.
And everybody in the office stopped working. They were affected by it. So this
is real. I mean, it happened, and...
K: Do you
think it’s possible that... and we can go off camera if you want, let me
know... it’s possible that you were, you know, there was a walk-in during those
times?
B: I think ...
No, I felt.... huh. Now we’re getting into things that we really don’t need to
pass on to the public, because they'll just think it's weird.
K: OK. Well,
we can turn this off. I’d just be curious...
_____________________________
|
Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy kerry@projectcamelot.org bill@projectcamelot.org |
|
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