Our Family of the Stars: English -- Calling Down the Craft: Adventures with the Mind -- A video interview with Bill Hamilton

Calling Down the Craft: Adventures with the Mind

A video interview with Bill Hamilton

Laughlin, Nevada, March 2006

Shot, edited and directed by Kerry Lynn Cassidy

Bill Hamilton: Have I seen a UFO? Many UFOs.

Kerry Cassidy: Many UFOs. And could you tell us who you are?

B: Well, my name is Bill Hamilton. I’ve been involved in UFO research probably most of my life. I got involved in the actual investigation of cases starting in 1976 with the Brian Scott case. And that’s when I joined MUFON and became a Field Investigator.

K: So how long were you a Field Investigator for MUFON?

B: Probably since 19... well, let me see... 25 years off and on...

K: How did you interact with aliens?

B: ...it was 1957.

K: Wow.

B: And what I knew about about UFOs I had learned from what I call the California Contactees back at that time. And there wasn’t a lot of controversy about the contactees, about UFOs or whatever. In fact, I had started to meet the contactees. And I was only 14 and I had a buddy in high school... we were freshmen in high school... and I said, “I would like to try an experiment. I would like to try an experiment along the same lines that George Hunt Williamson did in attempting contact with these UFOs.”

Right? “Now, I believe they’re there but I want to see if I can contact them.” We tried this experiment, and obviously we did not have the ham radio equipment. We didn’t have anything that we could use except an attempt at psychic contact by using pencil and paper. And when we initiated this little experiment we started to hear a sound that was reverberating throughout the room. And so we got up and we looked all around the apartment. He and I were.... He was a French-Canadian named Yves [Lauriault].

He and I were together alone in his parents’ apartment. And we couldn’t locate the source of the sound, so we decided to go outdoors. When we went outdoors it seemed like the sound was emanating from the sky above us. So we discontinued our little experiment, went downstairs and sat on the grass. And as soon as we did this, the first thing that we saw was a very... well, it looked to us like it was tiny... a tiny red glowing disc just glides right over our heads. Soundlessly. One came by. A second one came by. At that moment in time, unknown to me, Yves continued the experiment. He was sending out these mental requests for the second object that passed over to turn around and come back. And what happened is, as soon as he did that, the object executed a turn, a very, very tight 180 and came right back over our heads.

K: Wow.

B: And so he told me what he was doing and he said, “If we see more, let’s do it together.” And we saw two more appear. And they were all traveling from north to south, and so we sent out a request for them to turn around and follow each other, right? And they did. I mean, it was almost instantly.

Well, all together that night we saw fourteen objects. After that, Yves’ father had to move and took Yves out of school and I didn’t see him again. In fact, I haven’t seen him until about, oh, three years ago. He found me on the internet. And I found out he was right over in Bakersfield, and he drove over to see me. When we talked I also found out that was the only UFO experience he ever had and he still remembered every detail. He was impressed by it.

So that was unknown to me at the time, and I continued the experiment for three years, only from my house. Right? And so I took my... I was living with my aunt and my grandmother and I took her outside and said, “I’ve got one up there now.” And she said, “I’m watching television.” And I said, “Well, you told me to tell you when I saw one, that you’d like to see it.” So I took her out there and [pointing upward] I said, “There it is.” And she said, “That’s it?” And I said, “Yeah. Right now it just looks like a light, bright in the sky,” I said, “but watch this [gesturing upward left, then right] Turn left. Turn right.” She turns white as a sheet and she said, “Oh my God, you’re talking to it.” And I said, “Yeah, that’s what I’ve been telling you all along.” And then it occurred to me that she was just humoring me until she saw it for herself.

K: Wow.

B: And these experiments continued, so that... I had a very large object in 1958. Hovered. It was coming in faster than a jet and stopped on a dime. I had a friend from across the street over. I had my first telescope. This thing was as big as a 747 and it just hung in the air. That is what stimulated me to think, “How did it do that? I’m going to study the science of gravity. I’m going to find out how it defies gravity. And inertia.”... Right? Two basic qualities of a physical object that’s in motion, right? Because when this thing... It flipped end-over-end and it started up again... I mean it was just like it had no mass. It just went “whoosh” and started to climb and at that moment, I mean, my friend was looking through the telescope. It took that long for him to respond, look up and see it rise into the clouds.

And then I used to... then I started calling them down, like using them for a “Yes/No” game. Right? It didn’t even occur to me that there were logistics to this or anything. Right? Just... “Oh, I just met this new person says their a contactee. If this is true, do you know about it? Can you show me?” Right? And sometimes they’d come over, dashing right over my head about 100 yards up. I mean, now they get lower, right?

Ah, then there was another time when it seemed like I was bathed in some kind of electrical shower. Right? And then I could... I started getting telepathic answers. Very short. Right? But one of them just struck me, I think it was around 1959. It was golden. It was a golden disc. Just beautiful. Just hanging there and it said, “Wake up your mind. You’re in a deep sleep.” Yeah, and that stayed with me.

Another time we were out in the desert experimenting with a lightbeam transceiver to communicate with them. And there was about 14 people. The guy you saw downstairs, Bob Short, was out there and he can remember the incident because we were using the lightbeam transmitter for line-of-sight transmission into the sky, saying, “If you receive our signal, could you please respond?” Of course, we were hoping for a signal back. They never responded through the lightbeam transceiver, although some people have been successful with them. Instead, for some reason, and there were others who were contactees out there that day, I was the one that heard, you know, just like they did over my driveway, they repeated this message. And they said, “Look for our bright blue flare in the west.” Three times. And I said, “I better tell my buddy John here because if it happens he’s not going to believe me if I tell him after the fact.” So I told him. After I told him exactly what the words were, Bob Short, who’s downstairs, said... Somebody had asked him, “Well, what direction is west?” And it was just like synchronized to some kind of... you know, it’s just like theatre with these people. Right?

K: [laughs]

B: He points just like this... and just as he did, a blue bolide came right down. It looked like barbells, right? Very unusual. Beautiful. And John wrote about it eventually in his book but he decided to leave my name out.

K: This was John....?

B: This was John McCoy from Texas.

K: So, where... Are you from.... did this happen mainly in Texas?

B: This happened in the high desert of California.

K: Ah.

B: I’m not from Texas... although I’ve spent time in the Air Force there.

My contactee type of experiences... I mean, a saucer never landed and invited me aboard. I do believe that I had encounters with people here on Earth that were not from Earth. Very brief encounters. Back then, and even later on, okay, they always seemed to happen at about the time that I launched an investigation into something. I wanted to know the answers.

I went to college, left that contactee era behind me. Dropped out of college due to economic necessity, joined the Air Force, went into Air Force Security Service. Had one sighting while I was in the Air Force. Got discharged. Went into the aerospace industry. I wanted to be an aerospace engineer. That didn’t happen because the aerospace industry collapsed. I got into computers. I started... I went to night school, learned programming, became a programmer. Been one ever since.

K: You work at UCLA? Is that right?

B: I work at UCLA as a programmer/analyst, senior programmer/analyst. Just about to retire. I always loved science and engineering, so kind of regretted not going along that line.

“People on Earth who are not from Earth”

K: So you say you’ve had interactions with beings that... I’m assuming they look human?

B: These people can move among us. They could be downstairs and mingle and you wouldn’t know it.

K: Uh huh.

B: Now, it isn’t because they don’t have a few distinguishing features, they’re kind of like “heightened” features. They’re... in appearance, they’re perfect. They would be our conception of perfect men and women. I mean, they have absolute symmetry of features. They have flawless skin. They have perfect eyesight, perfect teeth, perfect form. Everything seems perfect, as if they have mastered the genetic master plan. One difference is, you might notice if you looked at them, is their eyes. Some of them have a little different eye coloring than you would see in a human, or they’ll have these little sparkling silver or golden flakes in their eyes.

K: Hmm.

B: These types also were extremely strong. A five-foot-three woman could lift a six-foot-four man right off the ground with the strength of ten men. They could bend their fingers back. They say we are related to them. We’re... we are the hybrids, not them; they are the pure form of man, right? Hu-Man, right?

That was the story we got back in those days. Lots of contacts in the 1960s. I actually saw two of them driving a car on a highway and they wanted to make contact with me. They let me know. And it’s because there was another person I knew in Hollywood who had contact with them who told me about that incident that happened on the highway, that I’m fairly convinced, because she wasn’t there, and so how did she know? Right?

I got interested in some of the, ah... I started hearing about abductions, right? You know, Betty Hill abduction and everything. And at first I rejected them. That wasn’t... did not conform to the pattern that I already knew. And believe me, back in the ‘50s there were a lot of people that had contact experiences that never got up on a lecture stand, never wrote a book, were never interviewed on it, but I spoke to them.

K: Uh huh.

B: And in one particular case, some of these people showed up out at Giant Rock, four of them, with 36 witnesses, out there. By the time I started going out there, I could only find two or three witnesses out of those 36.

[missing dialog for five seconds]

And the person I really felt strong about was George Van Tassel. I became good friends with George Van Tassel. I had so many conversations with that man, hours of them. You know, I just admired him. He had this tremendous breadth of knowledge and he didn’t have any real higher formal education. The other person I knew very well was Daniel Fry, because I was vice president of this group. And he was a brilliant guy, and he didn’t have any formal education.

K: Hm. So, you’ve been sort of one of the main researchers involved with Dan Burisch, right?

B: Yes, well, that’s coming way up in time because it was, when I started to investigate Brian Scott in the 1970s, who was an abductee/ contactee. He was both, right? Ah, I spent four years on that case. That’s how fascinating. And then it was during that period of time I spent four years that I had two of these guys walk into my house.

K: Two of what guys?

B: Whoever they were!

K & B: [laughs]

B: But they came into my house. Well, I ran a rooming house with my wife in Los Angeles at the time. She’s now deceased. But … they came through that door. My friend John was in the kitchen. He never heard the door open. They just walked down the hallway. And they were dressed in suits and they said, “We’re from the Health Department. We’ve received a complaint. We need to inspect the house.” This guy... one goes upstairs. It was a three-room rooming house, I mean three-story rooming house. The other one went into what I would call my library room. I had all these books and I had a section all on UFOs. He goes into this room and I thought, “Well, he’s going to look at the floor, right? For cockroaches, or mice, or something, right? What’s he doing?” No. He’s looking at my UFO books! So I stood in the doorway so that he couldn’t get out of the room unless he came by me. So he came right up to me, I looked right into his eyes.... and my brain jammed because I thought I was looking right into infinity, into... a highly evolved being. I mean, I can’t even begin to tell you the feeling that I had at that moment. And I’m thinking, “Who are you? Why don’t you say something to me?” Right? That’s what I’m thinking when his partner comes down the stairs and says, “We have to go now.”

So they exit the back door and I follow them out and this guy that was in my library, he turns around at the end of the steps and says, “Do you have a cigarette?” And I said, “Yeah.” At that time I smoked, so I gave him a Benson & Hedges. And then he goes... he looks at me... he says, “Do you have a light for this cigarette?” And I had one of the new Bic lighters and I handed it to him. And he took it, but he had it upside-down. And he’s looking at this thing and he reaches for me like this [demonstrates holding lighter out], and said, “Would-you-please-operate-this-mechanism-for-me?” Now, who talks like that, right?

And I said, “Oh, OK,” like he was a child. I showed him how it worked and lit his cigarette. And it was like he wanted to know what it as like, right? He took a draw, threw it away. “We have to go now.” So I yelled to my friend John. I said, “John, get out here on the double.” So he comes out. These guys headed for an alleyway, right? And I am only one house over from an intersection of two streets. I say, “John, you take that street, I’ll take this street. I want to know what car they get into.”

And I mean we ran to the street just as they disappeared out of sight. When I got back to... I said, “Well, John, I didn’t see anything, did you?” He said, “No.” I said, “You didn’t see a car pull away?” “No.” “Well, did you see the men walking?” “No.” They vanished! Right away I went to my wife and I said, “Call the Health Department now. I want to know who they sent down and why.” She called. They’d never sent anybody down.

K: [laughs]

B: And what happened? A few days later, one of these... two more guys show up at Denny’s Restaurant. And I won’t go through that whole scenario except one guy said... as we were listening to what they were talking about because he was mentioning Brian Scott. And I’m going, “How do two strangers know about Brian?”... he said to his partner, “The humans are upset.” And when I looked into his blue eyes, the same feeling...

K: Mmm...

B: Right? And I’m going, “Who are these people?” And they can walk right among us. It’s... well... my story is really not significant. There’s no way I could prove these people were something extremely unusual. Other people have reported these type of encounters. Even Timothy Good has reported that type of encounter.

Collecting Testimony

K: Did you write a book about Brian Scott?

B: Yeah. Well, I wrote... When I finally got published it was only one chapter in Alien Magic. I think it was chapter two. It was all about Brian.

K: Because I was, you know... you said... you went to Brian when we talked about Dan Burisch, and I’m curious about that.

B: Ah, yeah, because Brian was the first time I had heard about the years 2011 and 2012. When I met Dan Burisch later on, I’m hearing about 2012. (I’m just trying to rapidly scan through this.) I went from being interested in that... During that period of time I was interested in the Brian Scott case I had people coming to me that were former military people. This is how I got involved in that part. That turned into the ‘80s and I had investigated, oh, about a dozen abduction cases by then as a MUFON investigator. And/or sites, right? Whatever there was in my area. And then, you know, I even gave Field Investigator training classes after a while, you know, and I started really getting into it because I was good at [laughs] scientific investigation at least. I had no training as far as, you know, detective, police type investi... or forensics, right? but that fits in there too.

K: Uh huh.

B: But, see, I transited over into suddenly people telling me about crash retrievals. And I got interested in that. Crash retrievals during the mid ‘80s moved into underground bases and Area 51. I first heard about Area 51 in 1984 and about Lt. Robert Vaughn and how he died when his plane crashed. Lt.-Commander... I mean Lt.-General Robert Vaughn who was Vice Commander of the Air Force Systems Command. I’m going, “It’s awfully unusual for him to be test flying some aircraft, right? Why would a Vice Commander go out there and risk his life?” They use lieutenants, captains, and majors for doing test flights. I was in the Air Force then, by the way. I was in Air Force Security Service. I had a Top Secret Crypto clearance. So I was also familiar with...

K: So let’s hear a little about that. Did you... at the time you were in the Air Force you were not privy to, I’m assuming, the UFO ...

B: No. No, no, no.

K: OK. But you always had this history behind you. Do you think that, or was, the Air Force aware of that history?

B: Yes. Well, I needed to have a Top Secret clearance. The FBI took six months to give me that clearance. They talked to some of my friends who knew me out at Giant Rock... spacecraft conventions! I thought, “That’s it. They’ll never give me a clearance.”

K: [laughs]

B: Right? No. No. They all... these friends gave me a glowing report, so they took me. I got my clearance.

K: Wow. So OK. So as far as Dan Burisch is concerned....

B: Yeah, he came along much later. I mean, I went through about... I had collected testimony by that time that Steven Greer...you know who he is...

K: Yeah.

B: ... got involved in his project of witnesses. He got his first witnesses from me. At that time I had no project in mind, like he did, you know, going to Congress? All I was doing was trying to collect the testimony. I was trying to keep confidential some of these peoples’ names because they requested it and I knew they would just shut me off if I started yapping all over the place. But I was trying to find out what was going on. I had teamed up with Bill Steinman at the time. Bill Steinman lead me to John Lear. John Lear led me to investigate Dulce, New Mexico. I went over there, drove all around that place with Gabe Valdez back in the ‘80s. I got hooked up with my friend Tal who was an insider/outsider, you know, one foot in, one foot out... kept giving me tips and information and what have you, to track down.

So I got very involved. I met a guy in the ‘90s that was in reverse engineering, that had flown one of our reverse engineered craft to the moon and back. I mean, it was getting deeper and deeper, right?

Bob Lazar

K: Did you ever meet Bob Lazar?

B: Yep. I knew about Bob Lazar before anybody else did, through John Lear.

K: Oh, of course. Of course.

B: John Lear called me up one day: “Hey, I’ve got a story to tell you, Bill.” “What?” “We’ve gotta go for a ride.” (He was a little paranoid.) “Let’s get in my truck.” And he told me all about Bob Lazar except his name, at the time, because, you know, I guess... But he told me things about Bob, that Bob had told him, that Bob never mentioned. And, what... you know, John believes is that they tinkered with his memory, right? Because he had heard all this stuff about the moon from Bob Lazar and stuff like that. Bob is, “No way, no way.” But one day...

K: OK. Wait ... that’s a little unclear. You’re saying they tinkered with Bob Lazar’s memory?

B: Yes, with his memory.

K: Not John Lear’s.

B: No, not John Lear’s. In others words, Bob had... according to John, Bob had related all of this information to John which later Bob denied that he had...

K: Yes, in a certain sense there was a disconnect. He kind of, like, forgot ....

B: Right. There was a disconnect.

K: ... that he ever knew that.

B: Right.

K: OK. So there’s... yes... there’s some question as far as that goes. So, OK, so on the trail to Dan Burisch ...

Bill Uhouse / J-Rod

B: Then I met Bill Uhouse.

K: OK.

B: That’s an important event. Bill Uhouse was a mechanical engineer who, speaking out at Rachel and people that “you ought to meet Uhouse,” ‘cause by that time I had been speaking about some of these disclosure people we’re talking about. So I met Bill Uhouse and I thought it was hilarious. Here he had been working on a flight simulator for flying discs so our pilots could learn how to fly them and one of the “chief consultants” on this top secret project was an alien that he called J-Rod! Right?

And that’s where I first heard about J-Rod. In 1999 I’m on the internet and I find there is a website I stumbled across when I, you know, typed in a search or something and here was this document, and I said, “Boy, this document’s awfully technical. I’ve never seen a document that was technical like this.” We call it the Q94 document. And I’m reading through it, and I stopped when I got there and I saw: “Extraterrestrial Biological Entity: AQ-J-Rod.” J-Rod. You know … whoa! Wait a minute! And it was signed Captain Danny B. Crain, Ph.D.

Dan Burisch / MJ-12 / Getting the truth out

So I got ahold of the person and I ordered a copy of this, flashed it around MUFON and said, “Hey, is anybody interested in this?” I couldn’t rouse any interest. [laughs] And I’m, like, “OK.” And I couldn’t get any more information until 2002 when this person, Marci, contacted me and she said, “You know, Bill, I need help. I need help. Dan’s in trouble...” dadada. And at that point I had not met Dan, I had not met Marci, and she just called me at work at UCLA and I said, “We have to sit down and talk.”

And I think it was on a Friday. It was before... I was going to leave, go up to Vegas on that Saturday, and she called me in the afternoon just before I left and said, “Bill, how would you like to meet Dan?” And I said, “Are you kidding? Can you arrange that?” And she said, “Yes I can.” So when I went there I not only met Marci for the first time, I met Dan. And when he first saw me... and I was wearing an Air Force cap... he took all these papers and his briefcase and he stuffed all the papers in the briefcase and he ran out of that room, ‘cause he didn’t know who I was. And I said, “Oh, no,” you know. And Marci said, “I’ll handle it,” and went over to the elevator.

Called me back in about five minutes later, and introduced me to Dan. And he was, like, shaking. I mean, I’m serious. And he said, “You know I have to...." he said, "I’m very sorry I reacted like that. I have to watch myself. I’ve only got, you know, two hours of liberty.” Right? And Marci says, “I’ve got a private room,” you know, the library where we were. And so we went in there. I had one hour with him. He was very nervous. He had a cold or something that first time, but some of the answers he gave me that first time knocked my socks off. I said this guy has met an alien, because there were certain things that he knew that were so typical that I had picked up along the way from Brian, from everyone, right?

K: And you certainly had a background at that point to be able to evaluate somebody like that...

B: Oh yeah, after 25 years...

K: Who was Marci? Who is Marci, would you say? She’s an agent?

B: No, she was just... she was working for the State of Nevada, OK? She had a job in human resources because she’s got a masters degree in, ah... what do they call it... organizational psychology, which they hire the psych people in human resources. She was working with computers. She’s very good at that. She’s worked in casinos. She did casino surveillance, you know, with those cameras?

K: Uh huh.

B: She even wrote a book about... yeah.

K: How did she get involved with Dan, then?

B: She met him... well, that’s a good question, because the first story that came to me is Dan’s mother was working at that same casino. Dan was working at that casino. Security. And she had observed him on camera a couple times doing some unusual things, like going into this office, punching in a code, hanging up the telephone, the telephone ringing and she could hear him saying, “Yes sir. Yes sir. Yes sir.” Things like this. So Dan approached her because she had some writing experience and said, “I want to get out a story.

It’s about research I’ve done on the planet Mars as a biome.” And she said, “Ah, really?” So she got involved, and as things progressed she found out... or she was warn... She got warnings: “Watch out, this man is involved with Area 51.” “Area 51? Not that story.” And she said, “That’s just a popular legend here in Las Vegas.” And oh, no, this was for real and so people were starting to give her documents. In fact I got a copy of one of them which I published in my book, which is a security oath that he signed up at the Tonopah test site back in the ‘80s. So... now, ostensibly they wrote the book. There were a couple of other men involved in that, and Dan, and her. It was called Eagles Disobey.

K: You can’t get that book now, isn’t that right?

B: There are copies of it but... she had assigned the rights to somebody and that somebody did not assign the rights back to her when she requested it. The thing is, the only thing is, one day I get an e-mail from Marci, now 2002, 3, 4... time passes on. At one point there she thinks Dan has been captured or died or hurt or something. She doesn’t know. She’s scared. Some of her contacts that she had told her, “You’d be safer to get out of town.” So... she came from Canada... so she went back to Canada. She contacted me when she was in Canada. And she started saying, “I’m being followed. People are following me everywhere and I’m worried, and something’s going on.” And then I get... well, see, I got mysterious letters also in the mail, when it all started.

K: From....? I mean, are they... well, let’s say, they are from the community, so to speak?

B: From the black community. The black ops community.

K: Threatening letters?

B: No, not so much threatening as just saying... just giving me some information. Or just saying, “Here’s the status of things.” Ah, “It’s kind of dangerous.” Right? “We are friends of Dan’s but, you know, certain things are going on.” Well, this one... this guy sent me not only a letter, he sent me a photocopy, color photocopy, of Marci from various angles in her apartment, her bathroom, her... [laughs]. In other words, there was planted cameras all over the place. And then finally sent me a picture of her with a Majestic badge... MAJ. OK? It usually has a letter and four numbers, just like Bob Lazar’s, only instead of 'H', like, Dan had an 'E'. Right?

K: Symbolizing...?

B: Her website was taken down. Her e-mail was deleted. I had no contact with her. It was just, like, I got that letter and then that was it.

K: Have you heard from her... you’ve heard from her since then?

B: Well, then I got word that she was back in Vegas...

K: OK....

B: ... not only back in Vegas, but working with Dan as his operations director!

K: OK. So what did the 'E' symbolize on that badge? Do you know?

B: I haven’t found out to date. I don’t know what the 'H' or 'E' means, and I’ve asked. Maybe they’ll tell me one of these days. I don’t know. But it designates a classification of job assignment, I guess.

K: OK... so...

B: I’m assuming the 'H' has to do with science.

K: What year was it that she sort of disappeared?

B: Ah, late 2003. Reappeared 2004, now as a member of Majestic.

K: She .. I mean, you’re sitting there saying she’s a member of Majestic.

B: Oh absolutely. Yeah. But...

K: Weren’t you...

B: I found out....

K: I heard....

B: ... another story.

K: Oh.

B: OK. That’s the top story, right?

K: Sure.

B: And there’s a story under that, and the story under that is she met Dan in 1980 in the UK. Not only that, there were... See, there’s all kinds... this is what’s so mysterious. Somebody starts sending us background material. Everything I could check out absolutely checked out. I’ve had conversations recorded, e-mail intercepted. I was walking with my friend Winston outdoors. We were talking. That conversation was picked up by a spy device. Outdoors.

K: Right.

B: And regurgitated back to me in an e-mail.

K: Ah.

B: There were some errors, which was interesting. I have met Dan and had photographs, taken from unknown people standing somewhere behind me in a casino, sent to me by e-mail, to the point where I started saying, “Hey. Boy, this is either an elaborate hoax involving many people or it’s the real thing.” Right? “This is a covert operation of some kind.” Because they have sophisticated enough technology that they could tap into our conversations indoors or outdoors. They can intercept my e-mail. They intercepted an e-mail from my friend Alan to me. That was just from him to me. It had some confidential information that they... and they wished to let us know that they knew.

K: Right.

B: So that was the kind of thing that became more and more convincing all along.

K: OK. Now. I’ve heard that you were invited to join Majestic. Is that a rumor, or is that true?

B: Ah, let me say this. I knocked on the door. I started thinking. “Dan, you know they sent you to school. I never completed my education in physics or engineering... Maybe they’ll send me.” You know? And I said, “Could you get me in?” You know? “You think they’ll take me up to S-4 or... anything?” I said, “Lazar talked his way into it, maybe I can talk my way into it.” I said, “I have the opportunity here.”

K: Uh huh.

B: And so at some point, I think it was in 2004, in March 2004, Dan requested that I research something in physics, or... actually pertaining to biophysics. It was something he was looking into. And he said, “You know... send me a paper on it.” So I did... two... on biophotonics. He said, “This is great.” And... and that’s something. He folded my papers up with all of his and went off to Washington, DC, and delivered them. And I went... “Did I just contribute something to your project?” [laughs]

And he said, “Yep. It’s a matter of record now.” Right? And he said, “Don’t worry. It’s good stuff.” And I’m going, “Well, great.” And I said, “Wait a minute. If I’m going to do that, I want... I want the door to open.” Well, then I get contacted by his security: “OK. You were in the Air Force. You took an oath.” And dadadada.... right? “For now we want you to reply to this e-mail that you will abide by the oath you took then.” You know, Top Secret oath, right?

K: OK.

B: So I’m going, “How can he do that?” Right? Then I’m sent a message from Majestic-1 to William Hamilton saying, “You have asked certain questions about Dan and we have agreed (because they always have to agree) to provide you an answer.” And he starts going through a timeline, right? Starting at Eisenhower’s meeting with the aliens, right? 1958 first treaty signed near Los Alamos. And coincidentally my friend Robert sends me a photograph of a Majestic team, 1958, right outside of Los Alamos. So I’m going, “Whoa, what’s going on here?” This is getting stronger and stronger, right? I have published that full message...

K: Yes, and why do you think they are doing this?

B: I am being told that Dan was... you know, first they selected Bob Lazar and they said, “We wanted to see what he would do.” But he became a maverick, right? A little uncontrollable. They had better control of Dan. They felt Dan was very bright because he almost has... well, he had an eidetic memory. OK. And they just decided, for reasons that weren’t immediately apparent to me at that time, a little bit more apparent to me now... because it turns out that Dan was abducted when he was a child, that he should tell the world, but he should tell the world in a positive voice... right?... what is going on. And Majestic has, according to what I’ve found out... again, I’m only reporting this. I have no way of verifying some of these things. But now I do know who all the current numbers are. Right? They have met for the last time last year [2005] in assembly and have agreed not to meet, convene, again for two years. And when they convened they voted on giving Dan an order to tell the world. And he has until the end of this year [2006] to accomplish that mission because they expect more and more radical changes which will become apparent to the public as we proceed to 2007, 2008, toward this omega point of 2012 …

K: So...

B: … which they expect us to survive.

K: So basically in a certain sense, you know, if I’m following you, you were denied access to joining MJ-12?

B: Yeah, it was like I came along a little too late to really contribute anything. I mean, they agreed that I could start working with Dan if I wanted to, if I took a project. He still wants me to work on some of the science with him. It’s just that I have been recruited to work on another project, for which I have to sign a non-disclosure agreement, by another person who has kind of.... taken and proven that we have been reverse engineering craft and wants me to be involved in that. So, because I want to know what’s going on everywhere, what do I do? I volunteer for these things. So I have had a foot... it feels like I’ve had a foot almost in the door but not to the point of where I wanted to be ... where I said, “Hey, show me the money. Show me... not the money .... show me the proof that you’ve got.”

K: So... OK.... but Dan...

B: I’m in a very...

K: Dan is alive, is alive and doing well at the moment. Is that correct?

B: Yes, I only saw him a few weeks ago.

K: OK. And you still visit him, is it in Vegas?

B: I’ll see him tomorrow.

K: In... Here?

B: In Vegas. That’s all I can tell you about that.

K: No, I understand. You know....

B: Dan is sane.

K: OK, that’s what I want to hear, is what your take is.

B: Rational.

K: OK.

B: OK? Deals with facts, as a scientist.

K: Now, I saw a portion of this interview you did with him but my understanding is that the video interview is much longer. Are you releasing that?

B: I’m not releasing anything any more, because I don’t have the rights.

K: Meaning...

B: As far as...

K: Majestic-12 has the rights? Dan has the rights?

B: No. Ron Garner. He’s here. If you want to interview him, he’s here at this conference.

K: Ron Garner.

B: Yep.

K: Was he involved in the shooting of it?

B: He went in there with money.

K: Did he shoot it? I mean, I’m just trying to figure out how he has rights.

B: No. Well, he says that he has all the right connections to get Dan’s story out, to television, you know, all over, and apparently he has offered Dan and Marci enough evidence that he has these connections. But I don’t like it. I told Dan I will not work with Ron Garner. OK? You know, I published a book on Dan. I said, “That’s the end of the story.” I told the story.

I said right in the introduction: “I cannot prove this story to the public.” But I know that I have seen enough and experienced enough. Because I have been closer, I believe, than any investigator to Dan, and there are things that, to me, speak the truth. OK? I mean, I’ve seen Dan use disinformation because he was ordered to. He doesn’t like to but he was ordered to for security reasons and I know how they use him. Now the Intel guys that specialize in disinformation?

Sometimes they do it just for fun, get a kick out of spinning us around. And that’s what I believe they’ve done with Project Serpo, because it’s just so full of... errors. I’ll put it that way, mildly.

Project Serpo

K: Well, OK. Well, that’s interesting that you happen to think... And you know, I’m going to end this pretty soon here and you’ve been very gracious and, and this is great. But I was just wondering, in terms of Project Serpo... I know you’ve pointed out some very, you know, accurate errors, that have been, you know, recognized, at least by Bill Ryan, and acknowledged. But do you think there’s any truth to the story?

B: I think we have an exchange program. See, I’ve been hearing this story on and off for a number of years and... I was supposed to meet a colonel from Edwards Air Force Base... I used to hold meetings out in the Antelope Valley and one of my people that came to the meetings met this colonel who looked at my book, even read through it, and said, “Hey this here’s about 80 to 90 percent accurate.”

Then he started telling her, “How would you like to see some real documents on this?” And she goes, “I don’t think so, not if they’re classified.” And he said, “I want to show you all the different levels of identification I’ve got.” Right? And then he started telling a story. He says, “I’m going to tell you this story because, you know, nobody’s going to believe this anyway.” And he said that he has been on another planet where he could see two suns in the sky. And also he said, “I had a brigadier general that was a good friend of mine.”

He says, “I was flying a jet out of Edwards and I crash landed. And there were a lot of injuries. I didn’t think I would survive that. And they took me to the underground hospital at Edwards... underground facility hospital ... and they used some of the alien technology to put me back together.”

K: Hm.

B: So, you know... stories like this guy saying that he had actually been to another world, ah, was fascinating. And I had heard stories like that. Nothing you could prove, right?

K: Sure.

B: But it seems like somebody gathered these together... changed the whole character of the Ebens, right? And put together this story somewhat like the Steven Spielberg Close Encounters where they had twelve people, I think two of them women, ten men, that were supposed to go aboard this craft. And I mean they just weaved it all together, but they didn’t pay very much attention to science.

K: Hmm.

B: So what they described is a planet around Zeta Reticuli with two stars that are only about as distant from the planet as our own sun is. OK? That’s impossible. A planet cannot... you know, which sun does the planet orbit? And there is no such close, 180 million mile distance between two stars in Zeta Reticuli. The two stars, Zeta Reticuli 1 and Zeta Reticuli 2 are over a light year apart, about 9,000 astronomical units, compared to ONE astronomical unit. OK?

So that’s one big error. And then they make the planet almost the exact same diameter as the Earth and give it a different gravitational constant, right? Then they say, ah, they didn’t have any means of tracking the time on the planet... on the planet Serpo? But they did have this tower, which was something like a sundial, right? And they knew what time it was. And I said, “You can’t have advanced technology,” (you know, I protested) “... without extremely precise clocks and timing mechanisms.

You can’t even have a computer without that, much less a space craft that travels light years.” “Oh, who’s the idiot who asked this question?” Right? I am. I mean, I know technology, right?

New Interests / Is “reality” real?

K: So are you basically interested in writing any more books?

B: I have branched out a little further away from just... because I got interested in certain subjects, as a consequence of some of this research, that fascinate me about the universe, about reality... well... is reality real? [laughs] Plus I have spent 22 days in an altered state of consciousness back in 1977.

K: Twenty-two days?

B: Twenty-two days.

K: Meaning... what are you talking about, the Monroe Institute, or...?

B: [shakes head no] This happened to me spontaneously while I was trying to concentrate my mind on the resolution of a particular problem. My mind accelerated. I could do high speed mathematics. I could read Greek. I could read Latin. I could read peoples’ minds. I could move objects, you know, this kind of thing. I had people all around me, all my friends who used to gather with me at the coffee shop, plying me with questions about everything.

And here I am with answers coming out of me like I was a cosmic computer, OK? So, it was a life changing experience. It happened twice in my life. And actually, there was a third incident in the 1980s. But now I’m very, very interested... like I wrote this book on time travel. I’m interested in anomalies in time, multidimensional universe and things like this.

Of course, Bill Ryan and I, we share, ah, a philosophy on this where we believe that this is... we are spiritual beings that are immersed and trapped in our own creation...

K & B: [chuckle]

B: ... and that this creation has now become greater than us, where in truth we are greater than it. And that’s what was revealed to me in ‘77. And unfortunately something happened where I woke up, completely, on the job. I was programming. And everybody in the office stopped working. They were affected by it. So this is real. I mean, it happened, and...

K: Do you think it’s possible that... and we can go off camera if you want, let me know... it’s possible that you were, you know, there was a walk-in during those times?

B: I think ... No, I felt.... huh. Now we’re getting into things that we really don’t need to pass on to the public, because they'll just think it's weird.

K: OK. Well, we can turn this off. I’d just be curious...